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theferrett, got me thinking about love. Got me thinking again about a online discussion group I lead a few years back about love. Got me thinking about what I've learned about love over the years.
The Ferrett makes a very good point. Mostly about those who keep hunting for love for love's sake.
Scary thing is, I was one of those people. For a long time, longer than I care to admit. It was one of the things that kept me in a bad relationship for far longer than I should have stayed.
"But that's the problem. Love is fucking mundane. It's not nice to say, but love can - and should - be affected by trivial things like, say, your partner's inability to pay the rent or whether you actually enjoy the same movies. Love's largely about the little courtesies.
Because Love's not an independent process, flying high above the other emotions without support; it's held up by a gigantic pillar of Like, as in "I like who I'm married to." Without Like, everything begins to fray around the edges. The tragedy of lower-"l" love is that you can love the shit out of someone, and still not be able to trust them or hang around them without getting into screaming fights. "
And he's right, love IS about the mundane, it is affected by the minute of day to day stuff, it is about whining kids, and vomitting cats, and annoying clients and pain in the ass coworkers. It is, but it's more than that.
I think the distinction needs to be made between love and relationships. It is possible to love someone you can't live with. I did. For almost 7 yrs. The whys and wherefores of why it never did or could have worked as a relationship aren't really relevant here. But it was love, deep, passionate, heart rendering, soul mates love. And many years later, it's still love. He still loves me, I still love him. We will always share something truly special that makes our friendship now all the more dear. And we are friends. We both understand that we'd never have survived as a relationship, even if we had overcome the other obstacles. But we were friends first.
I am deeply, passionately, heart renderingly, soul mates, in love now. With a man who fulfilled my every desire, need, want in a man and in a relationship. We were friends first. We are still friends, best friends. We are together for the long run, yes - forever. I recall reading an article not so long ago in one of those women's magazines about how one shouldn't be in a relationship with your best friend, that your partner should be your partner, and your best friend should be your best friend. That way when one wants to bitch and moan about your partner, you have a shoulder to lean on. My feeling about that: BULLSHIT. If I wanna bitch and moan about my partner - maybe I've got an issue with him I should be talking to HIM about. There is nothing my partner doesn't know about me, there is nothing I wouldn't share with him, no part of me that I keep apart/separate for my 'friends'. I truly believe that that is how it should be. I share my soul.
I believe in soul mates. No I don't think necessarily there is only 'ONE GREAT SOUL MATE' in our lives. I've known a number of friends and lovers over the years that I truly feel as if we've known each other forever. Where the first time we met was like old friends meeting again after a long absence. I believe there are a lot of people in our lives we've known over multiple lifetimes. We looked up at the stars together in the night arm in arm, and know that there is a bigger force at work, an order, a destiny to our meeting and our lives together. Much like chaos theory, or fractals, order, patterns, out of random chaos events. That being said, is it that great stars in the sky shining down on us that makes the relationship work? No. I have loved and been loved, by people with whom a relationship is impossible.
Love is easy. Relationships are hard. In the online discussion, one young man declared, "Love is someone else's needs being more important than your own!". Nice thought, but wrong.... eventually putting someone else's needs always ahead of your own makes you a doormat, and breeds resentment. If I were to try and define it, I'd say, "Love is someone else's well being being critical to your own." Mostly relationships are a diplomatic game - a constant balance of who's needs need to be met this moment for the overall health of the relationship. Together creates a whole new entity "Us", and that us needs to be cared for and nutured, and if one half is unwell, bitter, resentful, then the health of the whole is affected. Love is mundane, it's everyday, who needs to be where when, what needs doing right now, and who's going to do it, and it's working together. In a strong, good relationship, hopefully that means that the negotiation process of that happens smoothly - seamlessly, so much so you hardly notice you're doing it. But in tough times, or difficult situations, the process gets trickier. Does this mean compromising yourself? No. Or it shouldn't. It means a shifting of priorities, of considering the well being of the whole, sometimes that means being selfish, sometimes that means being selfless. You are half of that whole, you must remain true to yourself in order to be true to the whole.
One of the reasons that our relationship works, even after a year apart, and 9000 miles between us, is that we remain a constant part of each other's day to day life. It's not all wine and roses, but kids and jobs and clients and frustrations and worrying about each other and taking care of each other. We have a lot of work to do and hurdles to cross, but because even 9000 miles away we work together - I'm sure those mountains will be scaled.
In the end, it's about values. It's about what you believe in the core of your being, what you hold dear, what matters to you... real relationships, whether love or friends, I believe share those core values. Working together from a common point of understanding that makes it work.
The difference for me between hunting for "LOVE" for love's sake, and finding a relationship where I am truly in love with the man I will spend the rest of my life with, was being able to sit down with myself and asking myself what I had to offer a relationship and what exactly it was I wanted, needed, expected in a relationship. This didn't happen in one day, it was a long process of growth over the years and truly wanting to know myself. Some of those lessons were hard learned, some of them very painful, and I've done my share of bleeding over the years. But ya know.... it was all worth it.
theferrett, got me thinking about love. Got me thinking again about a online discussion group I lead a few years back about love. Got me thinking about what I've learned about love over the years.The Ferrett makes a very good point. Mostly about those who keep hunting for love for love's sake.
Scary thing is, I was one of those people. For a long time, longer than I care to admit. It was one of the things that kept me in a bad relationship for far longer than I should have stayed.
"But that's the problem. Love is fucking mundane. It's not nice to say, but love can - and should - be affected by trivial things like, say, your partner's inability to pay the rent or whether you actually enjoy the same movies. Love's largely about the little courtesies.
Because Love's not an independent process, flying high above the other emotions without support; it's held up by a gigantic pillar of Like, as in "I like who I'm married to." Without Like, everything begins to fray around the edges. The tragedy of lower-"l" love is that you can love the shit out of someone, and still not be able to trust them or hang around them without getting into screaming fights. "
And he's right, love IS about the mundane, it is affected by the minute of day to day stuff, it is about whining kids, and vomitting cats, and annoying clients and pain in the ass coworkers. It is, but it's more than that.
I think the distinction needs to be made between love and relationships. It is possible to love someone you can't live with. I did. For almost 7 yrs. The whys and wherefores of why it never did or could have worked as a relationship aren't really relevant here. But it was love, deep, passionate, heart rendering, soul mates love. And many years later, it's still love. He still loves me, I still love him. We will always share something truly special that makes our friendship now all the more dear. And we are friends. We both understand that we'd never have survived as a relationship, even if we had overcome the other obstacles. But we were friends first.
I am deeply, passionately, heart renderingly, soul mates, in love now. With a man who fulfilled my every desire, need, want in a man and in a relationship. We were friends first. We are still friends, best friends. We are together for the long run, yes - forever. I recall reading an article not so long ago in one of those women's magazines about how one shouldn't be in a relationship with your best friend, that your partner should be your partner, and your best friend should be your best friend. That way when one wants to bitch and moan about your partner, you have a shoulder to lean on. My feeling about that: BULLSHIT. If I wanna bitch and moan about my partner - maybe I've got an issue with him I should be talking to HIM about. There is nothing my partner doesn't know about me, there is nothing I wouldn't share with him, no part of me that I keep apart/separate for my 'friends'. I truly believe that that is how it should be. I share my soul.
I believe in soul mates. No I don't think necessarily there is only 'ONE GREAT SOUL MATE' in our lives. I've known a number of friends and lovers over the years that I truly feel as if we've known each other forever. Where the first time we met was like old friends meeting again after a long absence. I believe there are a lot of people in our lives we've known over multiple lifetimes. We looked up at the stars together in the night arm in arm, and know that there is a bigger force at work, an order, a destiny to our meeting and our lives together. Much like chaos theory, or fractals, order, patterns, out of random chaos events. That being said, is it that great stars in the sky shining down on us that makes the relationship work? No. I have loved and been loved, by people with whom a relationship is impossible.
Love is easy. Relationships are hard. In the online discussion, one young man declared, "Love is someone else's needs being more important than your own!". Nice thought, but wrong.... eventually putting someone else's needs always ahead of your own makes you a doormat, and breeds resentment. If I were to try and define it, I'd say, "Love is someone else's well being being critical to your own." Mostly relationships are a diplomatic game - a constant balance of who's needs need to be met this moment for the overall health of the relationship. Together creates a whole new entity "Us", and that us needs to be cared for and nutured, and if one half is unwell, bitter, resentful, then the health of the whole is affected. Love is mundane, it's everyday, who needs to be where when, what needs doing right now, and who's going to do it, and it's working together. In a strong, good relationship, hopefully that means that the negotiation process of that happens smoothly - seamlessly, so much so you hardly notice you're doing it. But in tough times, or difficult situations, the process gets trickier. Does this mean compromising yourself? No. Or it shouldn't. It means a shifting of priorities, of considering the well being of the whole, sometimes that means being selfish, sometimes that means being selfless. You are half of that whole, you must remain true to yourself in order to be true to the whole.
One of the reasons that our relationship works, even after a year apart, and 9000 miles between us, is that we remain a constant part of each other's day to day life. It's not all wine and roses, but kids and jobs and clients and frustrations and worrying about each other and taking care of each other. We have a lot of work to do and hurdles to cross, but because even 9000 miles away we work together - I'm sure those mountains will be scaled.
In the end, it's about values. It's about what you believe in the core of your being, what you hold dear, what matters to you... real relationships, whether love or friends, I believe share those core values. Working together from a common point of understanding that makes it work.
The difference for me between hunting for "LOVE" for love's sake, and finding a relationship where I am truly in love with the man I will spend the rest of my life with, was being able to sit down with myself and asking myself what I had to offer a relationship and what exactly it was I wanted, needed, expected in a relationship. This didn't happen in one day, it was a long process of growth over the years and truly wanting to know myself. Some of those lessons were hard learned, some of them very painful, and I've done my share of bleeding over the years. But ya know.... it was all worth it.
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(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-24 08:48 am (UTC)One thing I've always said is that love is a verb. It's something you do. Because you have to. Because you want to. Because you just feel it. That's why it's all about the little things. You can't love someone *except* for the little things.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-24 11:11 am (UTC)"Love is an action word."
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-24 11:19 am (UTC)She's young. She may learn yet, or maybe a miracle will happen and it'll all work out. (I'm not holding my breath.)
Me? (And I've told her) I'll take good 80% of the time as opposed to amazing 20% and crap 70%. Good every day of the week... is "boring", yes, but it really has an appeal. It may not be amazing more than 10% of the time, but as opposed to the other option? Bah.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-25 07:10 am (UTC)